garganzol a day ago

Problem solvers based on graphs are hard to get your head around at first, but then you get extremely elegant and powerful solutions to seemingly unsolvable problems.

The only gotchas are: 1) time to get your head around 2) algorithmic complexity of the resulting solution.

Graph theory is probably the most fulfilling math application in the computer science. In a way, graph-based algorithms do magic similar to AI but in a fully determined manner. If you think about it more broadly, a graph resembles a subset of a neural network but only with {0, 1} weights.

  • vkazanov 21 hours ago

    Maybe some day neural networks will so obvious and well-known to the general public that this is how we'd explain graphs to kids: imagine a NN where weights are always 0/1...

    • NoOn3 17 hours ago

      Neural networks is not so complicated. They are much much simpler than it seems when you think about something as complex as intelligence. It even makes me sad that such simple things as neural networks perform such complex intellectual things...

      • vkazanov 11 hours ago

        Building blocks (real ones, not metaphorical ones) are also simple.

        Your brain is made of relatively simple cells. Even earthworms have neurons.

        But emergent complexity of systems made of simple neurons is staggering! That's the point, I guess. Simple bricks made complex systems.

    • sylware 18 hours ago

      You know what did happen millions of years ago when the monkeys started to use tools.

      Time of AI to know how to use tools, like a mathematical formal solver. Well, it is already done, but it is not LLM... soooo.. academics only?

tekknolagi a day ago

This seems, at least upon first read, analogous to global value numbering (GVN). Or, depending on how you look at it, common subexpression elimination (CSE). I am mostly wondering why they are not mentioned in the article.

  • tylerhou 21 hours ago

    GVN and CSE only identify duplicate/common subexpressions. They do not tell you where to place the computation of the common subexpression.

    The canonical algorithm to do that is to compute the dominance relation. A node X dominates Y if every path to Y must go through X. Once you have computed the dominance relation, if a common subexpression is located at nodes N1, N2, N3, you can place the computation at some shared dominator of N1, N2, and N3. Because dominance is a statement about /all/ paths, there is a unique lowest dominator [1]. This is exactly the "lowest single common ancestor."

    Note that dominance is also defined for cyclic graphs. There may be faster algorithms to compute dominance for acyclic graphs. Expressions in non-lazy programming languages are almost always acyclic (e.g. in Haskell, you can write cyclic expressions).

    [1] Claim. Let A, B, and C be reachable nodes. Suppose A and B both dominate C. Then either A dominates B or B dominates A.

    Proof. We prove the contrapositive. If neither A dominates B nor B dominates A, then there exist paths a, b from the root such that path a passes through A but not B and path b passes through B but not A. If there is no path from A to C, then A cannot dominate C as C is reachable. Similarly, if there is no path from B to C, then B cannot dominate C. So assume there are paths a' from A to C and b' B to C. Then the path b.b' witnesses that A does not dominate C, and the path a.a' witnesses that B does not dominate C.

    (There might be a bug in the proof; I think I proved something too strong, but I'm going to bed.)

    • mananaysiempre 16 hours ago

      I’m also a bit weirded out by the lack of mentions of dominators (in TFA or in the article[1] it links to). Once you have the dominator tree, though, you’re still going to need to answer LCA queries on it (in this problem and in an SSA-based compiler both), so there seems to be no way around this part.

      The algorithm in the article does O(1) queries with O(V+E) preprocessing (assuming linear-preprocessing LCA, which, yeah). What’s the best algorithm for dominator trees? People usually talk about Lengauer–Tarjan[2], which is linear in practice (linear except for UNION-FIND), and not the linear one by Georgiadis[3,4]. Unfortunately, I’m not a compiler person.

      [1] https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ipl.2010.02.014

      [2] https://maskray.me/blog/2020-12-11-dominator-tree

      [3] https://www.cs.princeton.edu/research/techreps/43

      [4] https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1137/070693217

      • tylerhou 10 hours ago

        In practice, if I have to implement dominators, it's probably for a toy language so I just go with the (fast quadratic) dataflow approach. It's simple to implement if you know what you're doing and if you already have a dataflow framework, it's pretty easy to implement: https://github.com/tylerhou/cs265/blob/main/tylerhou/lib/ssa...

      • chc4 15 hours ago

        You don't need to compute dominators. A topological sort of the graph gives you a computation order where your definitions are computed before their use.

        • tylerhou 7 hours ago

          I don't see how a topological sort helps you determine where to place the computation. If an expression A is topologically before an expression B, that does not mean that A always is computed on the path to B.

          For an example, consider a three-node binary tree where R is the root, A is the left child, and B is the right child. A valid topological sort is R A B, but it is not the case that whenever B is computed, A has already been computed.

        • mananaysiempre 14 hours ago

          I mean, it does, but that’s not what TFA’s problem statement is, and I can imagine why one may not want to immediately take apart the expression into assembly-like SSA

            let $0 = f a b in
            let $1 = g $0 c in
            ...
          
          and instead leave some original structure in place and some tree-level simplifications available.
          • chc4 7 hours ago

            The "equivalent-but-more-efficient program" example given at the top is almost exactly that, though

  • sjurba a day ago

    Shit. I had the semi hard problem at my last job and I just realized that the most efficient way I could solve it would be to write a blog post on how proud I was of my (shitty) solution and wait for the snarky commenters to tell me the proper way to do it..

    I love this fact about the internet! Thanks guys! Keep it up! Including the snarkyness. It’s part of what makes it great!

    (I am aware this is not a novel idea. Posting the wrong solution is better than asking for help.. It is just fun to see it in action)

    • tekknolagi 14 hours ago

      This is not snark! This is me genuinely wondering.

  • kldx a day ago

    Wondered about the same thing. Perhaps the author deals with graphs with no side effects or branches? It would then trivially become CSE on a single basic block.

    SSA transformations are essentially equivalent to what the author appears to be doing in terms of let-bindings [0].

    [0] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/278283.278285

  • j2kun a day ago

    I came here to mention this as well. If this problem was so critical to the company the author was working at, it seems negligent to spend a _year_ reinventing a solved problem from scratch, especially given the author's apparent history of compiler experience.

anonymousDan 19 hours ago

A great example of the value of academia and scientific research.

  • CrimsonCape 5 hours ago

    I recently started watching this lecture series on Category Theory by Bartosz Milewski and he delves into some mind-boggling existential questions in the first video.

    To paraphrase, mathematicians believe that they are in "a field of discovery" with the implication of "discovery" being that mathematicians are discovering something that already exists.

    He gives an example of how mathematicians believe that lambda calculus and other systems like set theory and graph theory are actually all the same thing as category theory. In a metaphoric way we have discovered the abstraction (category theory) and recognize that lambda calculus "implements the trait/interface"

    The dilemma is: did we truly invent a theory of a pre-existing phenomenon? Or do we somehow map physics of the universe to a what a brain is capable of parsing?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8LbkfSSR58&list=PLbgaMIhjbm...

  • RetroTechie 11 hours ago

    Equally important: have professionals of all kinds (like, engineers) be aware of state-of-the-art in fields of science that touch their profession. And how to find that (if necessary through 3rd parties - like author did).

    Knowledge is much less useful if it doesn't get applied.